This means that you will make three posts per six weeks; you may comment at any time during the two-week period that the post remains open.
Do not e-mail me posts after discussions have closed!
Also, these discussions will require some reading, so do not skip over the selection(s) I give you!
You must answer using short-answer question format learned last semester in class. Begin with your thesis/main idea, and then explain your answer using your own ideas as well as quotations from the text.
It is highly encouraged that you respond to the posts made to your peers in addition to making your post; you may agree/disagree with this person, and explain why. Students wishing to achieve an "A" for the assignment will follow this suggestion.
__________
Sonnet II by William Shakespeare
When
forty winters shall besiege thy brow,
And dig deep trenches in thy beauty's field,
Thy youth's proud livery so gazed on now,
Will be a totter'd weed of small worth held:
Then being asked, where all thy beauty lies,
Where all the treasure of thy lusty days;
To say, within thine own deep sunken eyes,
Were an all-eating shame, and thriftless praise.
How much more praise deserv'd thy beauty's use,
If thou couldst answer 'This fair child of mine
Shall sum my count, and make my old excuse,'
Proving his beauty by succession thine!
This were to be new made when thou art old,
And see thy blood warm when thou feel'st it cold.
And dig deep trenches in thy beauty's field,
Thy youth's proud livery so gazed on now,
Will be a totter'd weed of small worth held:
Then being asked, where all thy beauty lies,
Where all the treasure of thy lusty days;
To say, within thine own deep sunken eyes,
Were an all-eating shame, and thriftless praise.
How much more praise deserv'd thy beauty's use,
If thou couldst answer 'This fair child of mine
Shall sum my count, and make my old excuse,'
Proving his beauty by succession thine!
This were to be new made when thou art old,
And see thy blood warm when thou feel'st it cold.
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Discussion topic choices:
- (#1) Explain how Shakespeare uses imagery and metaphor to compare life to warfare.
- (#2) Explain how Shakespeare feels about beauty in this poem.
- (#3) Explain the lesson of aging Shakespeare is trying to convey through this poem.
Directions:
- Answer all questions in the comments section of this blog using the pen name you provided to me at the beginning of the year.
- Use correct grammar and spelling at all times when making your comments. No textspeak!
- Please tell me which discussion topic you have chosen in your comment.
Due Date: This post will remain open for comments and discussion until Monday, January 21, 2013 at 5:00 PM; after this time comments will close.
(#3) Shakespeare is one of my favorite poets. I'm pretty sure he's looking into the future to the time when the younger people will have aged and gotten old and he uses this as to urge himself to waste no time, and to have a son who will be his replica and make "beauty", i think.
ReplyDelete(#1) The imagery of ageing(?) is like warfare. forty winters means the army and they dug fields in their enemy's territory and (based on my research and own personal ideas) the trenches ARE the lines in his forehead. So like if he has kids, he's like satisfying the world and creating more beauty in account of himself ("'This fair child of mine
Shall sum my count, and make my old excuse,'
Proving his beauty by succession thine!"). Did I understand correctly? Anyone feel free to add onto what i said or say something else.
I used http://www.directessays.com/viewpaper/12558.html (essay on shakespear's ideas of beauty)
and http://www.sparknotes.com/shakespeare/shakesonnets/themes.html (symbolism)
(#1)Shakespeare uses imagery and metaphors to compare life to warefare. I agree with katnissneverclean when they say that "the trenches are lines in his forehead," because that puts the image of deep wrinkles(trenches)into your head to help enhance the age of the subject. "When forty winters shall besiege thy brow" adds to the fact that he is not young anymore.
Delete(#2)Shakespeare probably feels that beauty(glory)is not forever. "where all thy beauty lies...To say, within thine own deep sunken eyes" tells the reader that the subject is self-obsessed with himself. "This fair child" that he failed to raise when he needed him. If he'd taken time to raise the child, all his 'beauty' would've been given to the child he had so proudly raised. So Shakespeare is just saying that if you are greedy and self-obsessed, you won't 'see beauty' the way others do. I used: http://www.nosweatshakespeare.com/sonnets/2/
(#1) I think that when it says "When forty winters shall besiege my brow, And dig deep trenches in thy beauty's field," it compares warfare to life by saying that just as an area gets ruined by the effects of war, the beauty of youth is being spoiled by age. I believe that in the poem, warfare is age and beauty is youth. I also agree that the big trenches are the lines on his forehead as well because of this belief.
Delete(#3) I agree with katnissneverclean on what shakespeare is trying to convey about aging. What he is trying to say is that you should enjoy and charish the days that you are young because you age quicker than you think. For exampe "And dig deep trenches in thy beauty's field" it sound like the message that shakespeare is trying to convey is that you wish that you could could stay in the time when you were young and just stay there for a very long period of time and enjoy every moment of it. I say this because trenches provide shelter for soldiers during war and battle and it's mostly the place where soldiers stay during war. So shakespeare is trying to say that he wishes that he could go back and into the time when he was young and mobile and build a trench so that he could stay in those moments for a while longer. I could start to tell while reading this poem that shakespeare was talking about aging when I read the line "To say, within thine own deep sunken eyes" because I could that sunken eyes meant wrinkles and you gain wrinkles from aging.
Deletefrom AG:
ReplyDeleteShakespeare uses metaphor when he says " when forty winters shall besiege thy brow. I think he means the the war took to long. When he says " and dig deep trenches in thy beauties feild, I think he means that the war has destroyed everything. I think that he is trying to say that you are most beautiful when you are young.
Shakespeare uses metaphor and imagery to compare to warfare.I agree with Miss G about "and dig deep trenches in thy beauties feild" how it means everything was destroyed in warfare. "when forty winters shall besiege thy brow" means the war was a long time.
ReplyDeleteShakespeare feels that beauty is not forever. That he was greedy so he didn't see much beauty in the world that others could see.
Shakespeare is saying there is a lesson in aging. That your child will carry on your beauty in his youth.
he is using metaphor to compare the field beauty with the warfare that happen there, and the imagery is "and dig deep trenches in thy beauties field"... he is expressing that war will effect our future, and our kids future..
ReplyDelete(#1) William Shakespeare compares warfare to life through the use of metaphors and imagery in "Sonnet II". The "forty winters" show that war turned out to be a nearly perpetual struggle, while the "deep trenches in thy beauty's field" & withing thine own deep sunken eyes, were an all-eating shame" explains the land as consumed by warfare as though the aging land has began to take its toll.
ReplyDeleteNintendo144gms January 21,2013 4:30 P.M
DeleteI can agree with that statement,because warfare and power struggle can ruin the beauty of the land. Also, the verse, "...Will be a totter'd weed of small worth held:" shows the effects of war and its consequences on the land.
shakespeare conveys a sort of reflective tone throughout this sonnet. His use of strong metaphors creates a deep and thoughtful atmosphere in the readers' head. metaphors like "When forty winters shall besiege thy brow,
ReplyDeleteAnd dig deep trenches in thy beauty's field." This refers to experiencing forty years of life that you have gone through, forty times you have been in the season of winter. Also "...dig deep trenches in thy beauty's field..." The word "trenches" refers to the word everyone knows as the place where the soldiers hide during a battle or war throughout history, but trenches in this sonnet symbolizes wrinkles that have accumulated over the "forty winters" or four decades. "Then being asked, where all thy beauty lies....To say, within thine own deep sunken eyes." I love this section of the sonnet because this tells that over the "forty winters" when you have gathered wisdom and experienced life at a greater level than someone at a younger age, you begin to realize that your wisdom is more valuable than anything in the world. shakespeare provides a clear picture that gives a lot of good imagery and metaphors that many can understand with enough reading of this sonnet.
The imagery of ageing used is that of siege warfare, forty winters being the besieging army, which digs trenches in the fields before the threatened city. The trenches correspond to the furrows and lines which will mark the young man's forehead as he ages. He is urged not to throw away all his beauty by devoting himself to self-pleasure, but to have children,and live a happy life.I think that Shakespear was just trying to use a this sonnet as a metaphore to say Dont spendyour life in vain ,and thinking the world revolves around you because it doesn't. Life is a great thing and people should treat it as such. I also see how Shakespear used some foreshadowing. He was looking aheadafter the man had his own son and he man didnt want his son to be vain and make the same mistake with life as he did himself. I understand why Shakespear calls his Sonnet,''Forty Years.'' He is refering to the age of the man. The man lived forty years and now he is starting to age. He remebers how hansome he was before to now be a wrinkled old man. In my opinion the man was obbsesed with his own beauty. That ties into the theme i got out of this sonnet,wich was ''outside beauty'' odesn't last forever so you need to be beautiful inside and out. In life you will be judged upon how you look but,also upon how you act and if you dont treat people right when you need help in your withering days no one will be there to help or love you.I agree with Donald Jhonson's previous comment when he says ''Shakespeare conveys a sort of reflective tone throughout this sonnet.'' I definetly agree with him because i do see how Shakespeare has created this man who is lookin over his life to only realize that he has been self-absorbed or self-centered his whole life. I also lke the comment that Junior put on here when he/she says "aging comes with a lesson." We don't realize how good we have life until it's almost gone. I chose topic 1,2,and 3 to discuss because I thought all three were very prior to undersandin what Shkespere was trying to get accros in this sonnet.
ReplyDeleteI think that Shakespeare is saying that war affects the beauty and happiness of life. When he says "And see thy blood warm when thou feel'st it cold." I think hes saying that even though the blood is warm from the recent death, the feeling was very cold-hearted or saddening.
Deletei think what shakespear is trying to convey through this poem is that, how things are changing from the " lusty days". I wounder what happend to the treasure of thy lusty days ". Maybe someone stole it, and thats why he said "were an all-eating shame, and thriftless praise.",.
ReplyDeleteI guess he just wants us to stop acting like "an all-eating shame" and enjoy the beauty in the world.
from BabbyCakes:
ReplyDeleteI think that what Skakespere is trying to point out by unsing metaphor and imagery by yelling us that beauty doesn't last forever. The real beauty is in your soul, not by looks on the outside, like "Ooh, I have to wear like 20 different kinds of creams, straighten my hair, and wear the best and the the in-style kind of clothing". No what I mean is how you are in the inside. Aging. You can gain experience by aging, and when you age you turn into a wiser person. That makes you a kind of person that people can look up to.
from T_cute:
ReplyDeleteThis poem is very unique,and in my opinion very deep in meaning.
The poem was a English Sonnet,because the last four letters moved to the next alphabet.(ababcdcdefefgg).
#2. Shakespeare doesn't want to age, because he feels beauty will not last.The older you get the more less attractive you become.
#1. "How much more praise deserved thy beauty's use.."It means he should have put his beauty to greater use.
I agree with Donald Johnson,because 'when forty winters shall besiege thy brow,refers to experiencing forty years of life that you have gone threw.
#1 "dig deep trenches in thy beauty's field " by this he means that warfare has devastating effect on natures beauty.#2 But the poet worries his beauty will not last, and that it is foolish for his friend not to be ready to become old and lose his youth. #3 The only way he can really be prepared is to have a son who can carry on his name and all his legacy and beauty
ReplyDelete#1 I agree with koolaidkid319 about age and beauty. Time makes beauty change through the eyes of the people so they believe that youth has the most beauty, "How much more praise deserv'd thy beauty's use." Some people believe their age is so ugly "And dig deep trenches in thy beauty's field," that it is like warfare of the beauty they had. Shakespeare uses metaphors to exaggerate his thought and thinks his beauty is made old, "This were to be new made when thou art old"
ReplyDelete#3 i agree with katnissneverclean on the topic of Shakespeare of conveying aging through his poem because he is portraying the fact that youthfulness is not forever and that you should cherish your young and early moments of your life. and he is thinking to not waste time and beauty so he thinks about having a son to pass the youthfulness and beauty on
ReplyDeletefrom ninjastar318:
ReplyDelete(#1)i aggree with baby cakes that shakespeare is telling us that beuty is inside and never on the outside. use it for the good not for anything else "Proving his beauty by succession thine" .
from lexisssimone:
ReplyDelete#2 I think that Shakespeare feels that beauty will not last very long. #3 He says " Where all thy beauty lies where all the treasure of thy lusty days" which brings me to also think he feels that if one ages their beauty will go away, therefore he does not want to age.
from Nintendo144gms:
ReplyDeleteIn this poem, Shakespeare was talking about beauty and feels that beauty should not be wasted and can be enjoyed while it lasts. Also, he feels that we should enjoy it while it lasts by comparing it to the beauty of the war-torn place.I feel that beauty should be admired and that we should make the most of it in a good way. "Thy youth's proud livery so gazed on now, Will be a totter'd weed of small worth held:"
from spiderman31:
ReplyDeleteI think Shakespeare thinks that beauty never goes away. I think he thinks that even though people age their beauty lies inside, because they have lived life .
I think that Shakespeare is trying to tell you that its okay to age because you have wisdom and knowledge and that is beautiful.